One Finite Planet

Topics and Subtopics.

the mobile pressure is on apple and samsung, and the importance of Tizen

November 18, 2014 December 1, 2019

The mobile space is dominated by two brands: Apple and Samsung. Each has reached such a large market that continuing to increase market share basically

November 18, 2014

Technology

Wright’s Law: The secret to knowing what’s next for products & product prices.

Understanding Wright's Law, is key to knowing what technology, at what price, is coming next, and how prices of current technologies will change. It also has significant implication on completeness of USA vs China vs the rest how AI can revolutionise the cost of introducing new products.

Finite Planet

Our days are numbered: Timeline of Life in Our Solar System.

Imagine spaceship of humans visiting our solar system and landing on Earth. Outside small interval highlighted in green window on the timeline, human survival on the surface would require a spacesuit, and outside the yellow highlighted time window, even the oceans would only contain organisms visible by microscope. Visit today, and the visitors have missed peak life which occurred 500 million years in the past, and instead see life in gradual slow decline to its imminent demise. Life is fragile, and it is dying.

Philosophy and Perception.

Science

Goldilocks zone as a place and time: A dangerous fairy tale?

Commenced: August 6, 2024

Fairytales often contain significant element of danger, and with the label "Goldilocks zone", the danger is the concept can be dangerously misleading. Stars change from a faint young sun through their lifespan until they explode and die as a "nova", and this continual change means the temperature at any distance from a star will change dramatically over time, and it who or what it must be not too hot and not too cold for can also be very misleading.

Surprise, Shortest day ever recorded: Not the solstice, but climate change?

Commenced: August 12, 2022 Updated: March 23rd, 2024

2024 March 23 : The first ever minus leap second.

This page is more under the heading of 'fun facts'. The first 'fun fact' is that while everyone knows how the length of daytime and nigh time vary throughout the year, it may come as a surprise to realise the length of the entire day, also varies. Partly because, second fun fact, the a day is a longer than one rotation of the Earth, which lead to the third fun fact: we just had the shortest total day ever recorded.

Freewill: An Essential, But Dangerous, Illusion.

Commenced: March 5, 2022 Updated: March 16th, 2024

2024 March 16 : Added explanation by Neil deGrasse Tyson video and updated facing dangers.

Is there such a thing as freewill? Aren't we just complex chemical reactions where the results of the reaction are entirely determined by the ingredients? It is very common that steadfast belief in freewill leads to its own form of victim blaming and even racism.

Why don’t climate scientists tell the truth?

Commenced: May 20, 2023 Updated: March 8th, 2024

2024 Mar 8 : Update to cite Bill Macguire and concerns of Physicist Sabine Hossenfelder

While part of the problem is like with the boy who cried wolf people are not listening, the recent revelation that the planet will most likely reach +1.5°C by 2026-2027 makes it seem very likely climate scientists are also being very guarded with how much of the truth they are prepared to reveal. It is not that climate scientists are lying, but what is being said tends to be so heavily qualified that people are able to read whatever they want into what is being said. The lack of clarity allows "religious environmentalists" to hear that we must all suffer for the planet, the politicians to be able to say: "we are on-track with our climate commitments" and those reliant on profits and taxes from the oil and gas industry to believe "we have until 2050". What is needed to get a clear enough picture of where things stand for action to be appropriate to the risk?

Hydrogen facts: No, it’s not abundant on Earth. Nor green nor an energy source, but energy storage.

Commenced: April 13, 2021 Updated: December 1st, 2023

2023 December 4th : New edition of this page, with additions including white and pink hydrogen and more on the pressure required for storage.

There is much talk of a 'hydrogen economy'. A hydrogen future has long been the dream of the fossil fuel industry, and much of the traditional automotive industry, but what is the nature of the element hydrogen that is behind it all? There are clear practical uses for hydrogen, but the questionable hype is the use of hydrogen as a fuel or in energy storage. It turns out much of the attraction around hydrogen fuel is that it can generate a value chain for suppliers as it more expensive than alternatives and could provide a revenue future for the fossil fuel industry, if only a reason to compel its adoption despite the cost barriers. This is a look at hydrogen itself, its abundance, and the blue and green etc sources of hydrogen, as background for pages on hydrogen cars vs EVs, on carbon capture, and for this page highlighting which "hydrogen projects are viable, and which are scams?"

RCS – The SMS successor and blue bubbles vs green culture war.

Commenced: August 15, 2023 Updated: November 26th, 2023

2023 November 26th : Apple RCS adoption announcement.

The world and usage of SMS has moved on since the introduction in 1992, and the system lacks many features now seen as essential, including even the ability to see if a message has been received. Apple has its own proprietary "iMessage" SMS/MMS successor for communication between iPhones within the Apple walled garden and the bubble wars, Facebook has its own messages system and has "What's App", but is there room for a true SMS successor that is not a walled garden fully controlled by one technology company to create division into "tribes", and instead is able to connect all devices just like the original SMS system? RCS is simple to enable and is the best messaging solution for Samsung and other Android phones and to end culture wars and walled gardens.

What really killed the dinosaurs?

Commenced: May 16, 2017 Updated: August 18th, 2023

*2024 January 4 th: minor updates.

"A giant meteorite wiped out the dinosaurs" is the catch phrase. The first twist is that we now know "only the non-avian dinosaurs". Birds evolved from surviving types of dinosaurs. It was the biggest most spectacular dinosaurs that died, and in fact many of the largest were already extinct. But have you ever wondered "why the dinosaurs, when so many other animals survived?" Alligators survived, fish survived, mammals survived, even dinosaurs that became birds and other reptiles survived, and even frog species that seem so sensitive to any change in environment survived that meteorite. The common factor was that the biggest ones died and did not reappear either. So why the largest dinosaurs? And what is the lesson? These answers after first some background and myth-busting. While I do literally mean the actual dinosaurs, there is also a lesson in the answer for the metaphoric dinosaurs that big companies can become, and in the knowledge that if all is left to nature, humans will soon follow and suffer the same fate as the bigger dinosaurs.

A different perspective: Humans maybe the greatest threat to life on Earth but also the only hope.

Commenced: January 13, 2023

The title 'one finite planet' can be mistaken to be yet another proclamation of how we live on this amazing planet which could even be unique, and we humans are foolishly placing it all at risk. Boring. No. Instead, the perspective is we are living on a planet that is naturally hostile to humans, where nature dictates only a limited total amount of life, can only exist for a limited time, and that time is almost at an end. When seen from this perspective, even the environment mission changes from just not interfering, to the more complex task of tackling the challenge of overcoming nature, while yes, quite importantly, not bringing life to an early end in the process.

Australia as a clean energy superpower? Yeah…nah!

Commenced: June 26, 2023 Updated: June 26th, 2023

*2024 Aug 11 : added "Why the mega plan to send Australian solar to Asia (almost) flopped"

The third largest exporter of fossil fuels behind only Russia and Saudi Arabia, Australia could already be regarded as a fossil fuel superpower, but can Australia become a "clean energy superpower" as suggested by many including recently by the Fully Charged Show. What is a clean energy superpower? There are several different possible interpretations ranging from greenwashing to world changing. Inspired by the Fully Charged video that looks at one modest by realistic interpretation, this is a deeper look at the possibilities. Despite the rhetoric and enormous potential, Australia shows little commitment to any more than an attempt to move from "clean coal" to "clean gas" and miss potentially huge opportunities, not only for Australia, but perhaps even for the planet.

What the F is 5G? What is new, and what are the risks?

Commenced: September 2, 2020

Now for something not Covid-19, which is a rarity lately! A different topic for this blog, but 5G came up in a recent conversation, and what I thought I 'knew' about 5G was: significantly higher mobile data rates were possible (true) 5G is based on higher frequency radio than 4G etc (false) 5G works for far more people even in a crowded spaces (true) towers for 5G must always be close in order use 5G (false) 5G data rates could potentially match/replace fibre optic cable (false) As you can see, turns out what I had thought prior to research, was all a collection of misunderstandings, but when I did research, I found more conspiracy theories than facts.

Why Car Makers are Lying about the storm.

Commenced: September 10, 2021

If you follow car industry publications, there both facts and well recognised predictions that combined, signal a storm for the car industry. Reality: Why The Makers Are Lying. In less than 5 years, electric vehicles will become less expensive than ICE (internal combustion engine) vehicles, and are already significantly less expensive to maintain. Lower cost […]

Electric Cars 2025: ‘adding up’ will create a revolution. Who wins, who loses? China? Japan?

Commenced: May 4, 2021

I recently explored how in 2021, the numbers for EVs don’t really add up yet. One of the key discoveries, was that many sensible people are projecting EVs will reach ‘price parity’ by 2024-5. If this happens consider the trend: Looking deeper, there is every reason those predictions look real, and this will completely turn […]

ARMs Race Risc: Episode 1, Apple and Microsoft

Commenced: March 15, 2021

Right now, could be a bad time to invest in technology and buy a new computer. I suggest that, right now, all Apple laptops are in a state of flux, and no Microsoft Surface tablets or laptops make sense. This is all due to the ‘ARMs race to new computer architecture, as an upheaval in […]

ARMs Race Risc: Episode 2, Why Microsoft needs RISC!

Commenced: March 16, 2021

Episode 1 stated now could be a bad time to invest in technology and buy a new computer. Apple has announced they are moving to ARM CPUS, which will mean replacing their products, and this episode explores why it is so critical to Microsoft that they also move to ARM, and what the multiple technology […]

5G, Wi-Fi 7 (WiFi), Bluetooth & UWB: Why do we need them, and how do they all fit?

Commenced: January 5, 2021 Updated: March 4th, 2023

2023 March 4 th : Updates for WiFi 7.

I recently researched 5G, in order to understand what it was all about, and the reality of any possible new health risks. I came to the conclusions that 1) health risk claims are groundless, and 2) there is no logical reason to upgrade devices at this time to get 5G. But that research led to questions on how all the connectivity standards fit together, and how compelling might it be to upgrade devices to get benefits of new Wi-Fi, Bluetooth or UWB?

One Finite Planet: The future must change because everything has its limits.

Commenced: December 8, 2017 Updated: March 3rd, 2023

2023 March 3 rd: Updated 'philosophy' section.

It was recently suggested "one finite planet" sounds like it's yet another website dedicated to sustainability and what I label "righteous environmentalism", but in some ways, it is the opposite, as this site takes the position, not only with the environment but every topic, when you look deeply enough you see that nothing is perpetually sustainable, and everything has its limits, and without humans life on Earth is basically screwed anyway. This site is about taking a deeper look into what is in the news and shaping the world. This uncovers some significant surprises and insights. Rather than news or a blog, this site is all about "a deeper dive" into topics where change is having enormous impact on our lives. While news sites are essential for tracking change, a deeper dive can give the insight to predict change.

The Electric Vehicle Road Trip Problem: EVs in Australian and USA as Examples.

Commenced: September 14, 2021 Updated: December 3rd, 2022

2022 December 03 : Australia examples.

In theory, and under ideal conditions, an EV road trip with DC rapid charging can be as time efficient as travelling in an ICE vehicle. However, conditions are not always ideal. Some trips take much longer, and others can become problematic. Will EV road-trips ever become as convenient and dependable as traveling by ICE vehicle?

Life in the colonies: The line between colony and individual is unclear.

Commenced: May 30, 2016 Updated: August 20th, 2022

2022 Aug 20: Updated format, new featured image

Are humans one single organism? Or in fact a colony, or society of cooperating organisms of many different types, which includes not only many different type of specialised human cells, but even cells that are not even human?

The daunting steps to the multiplanetary species Sci-Fi dream of new home planets.

Commenced: May 31, 2016 Updated: July 26th, 2022

2022 July 26: Rewrite to update on "planets and moons" progress of colonising the solar system.

There is a dream, often explored in science fiction, where humanity inhabits not just one planet, but many. While the dream is still centuries away, as is 'Earth 2.0', the reality, working towards small outposts on Mars or the Moon or even beyond is overwhelmingly compelling and can provide many rewards. Humanity may get minor outposts, but for centuries, will have no real second home, and over 99% of us will still need to live on our one finite planet.

The Challenges of an Earth 2.0. (Kepler 452b?)

Commenced: July 26, 2015 Updated: July 24th, 2022

2022 July 24: Rewrite, updated to fully clarify why 'no alternate home'. I learnt a lot in 7 years.

Sadly, no, the existence of many "Earth 2.0" planets does not mean there are planets out there we could colonize. From the obvious to the surprising, reasons include: 1) With current technology it would take over 10,000 years in travel time for us to send just 10 people to a planet of another star. 2) It took having plants for billions of years to build this O2 atmosphere on Earth. 3) Even on Earth, it took billions of years of changes before we were could survive here! In reality our best hope for living beyond Earth within the few hundred years, lies within own solar system. This century we could perhaps establish at best an outpost/bunker for billionaires and their friends as and within the following century maybe even a space-city, but without building a complete artificial planet, an off-Earth home for even 10% of us within this solar system is just not feasible.

EV Range & Economy: Decoding the Numbers.

Commenced: May 1, 2021 Updated: May 24th, 2022

2022 May 24: added link to article on WLTP range is really calculated.

The key specification for EVs so far has been 'range'. But how are the numbers measured, will range specific match reality, and can the number even be compared? It turns out there are even 3 different standards for measuring range, and they give very different answers! Further, why have we moved from 'economy' to 'range'? Is there still even economy with EVs?

WordPress.com to the Next Level: Plugins, Elementor, CoBlocks?

Commenced: January 8, 2022 Updated: April 2nd, 2022

2022 April 2 and then July 31:no date to be seen here help on tablepress and table-chart.

Something completely different. A discussion on how this site is hosted: on wordpress.com. Anyone who has started a "blog" or other site on wordpress.com, may get to wonder, what are the options for upgrading the website? What is the value of the free, personal or premium plans and beyond? What real world benefits are there, and, alternatively, what would you lose and/or gain from moving away from wordpress.com. This is a page discussing being in that situation. If you are not considering having a website, it may be of little interest.

Revolution?: HDMI ARC, eARC and S/PDIF

Commenced: March 21, 2019

The move from S/PDIF to HDMI ARC failed in bringing even a small revolution, but the introduction of eARC in HDMI 2.1 may now actually allow a major revolution. Contents: S/PDIF: History Audio Return and Directional Audio/Video Cables Pre ARC (before HDMI 1.4, 2009 ) HDMI 1.4 with ARC (Audio Return Channel) Sonos Beam – […]

Digital Cameras: Crop vs ‘Full Frame’

Commenced: December 27, 2017

There are cases where the rapid evolution of technology means that terms can lose connection with their original meaning. ‘Crop’ and full frame are clear examples. Should we go back to the original meaning, or embrace using the original term in ways that evolve further and further from that original meaning? History/Background Film Cameras Pre […]

Apple Evolution: Which premium market next?

Commenced: December 15, 2017

This is the excerpt for your very first post.

Will Apple One Day Ditch the Mac/MacBook?

Commenced: December 10, 2017

John C Dvorak of suggests in this article that Apple is ready to ditch the Mac. Is this realistic? The idea that the Mac is a problem for Apple is something I have suggested in conversation on several occasions, so there are a least two observers, and from different perspectives, seeing that Mac products no […]

All Free? The Tech Industry is so dumb!

Commenced: March 4, 2021

Initially, it seems the tech industry is just dumb. You could think: “So they get me to watch adds, and they collect my data. It is not like letting them collect my data is going to cost me anything! It is not like Facebook, Google, Instagram, WhatsApp etc have some way of getting their hands […]

Images, Making Animated GIFs & Solving colour problems.

Commenced: January 1, 2022 Updated: January 1st, 2022

2022 Jan 1st: Initial version.

This is part of series of pages I will be adding on things I have learnt as part of building this website, and I will soon try and enable following by topic (when I get this page working), so people can separately select notification on building websites and/or population or other issues, without being notified of things outside their interest. Standby for that update. Meanwhile this page provides general help on making an animated GIF for a series of images, specific help on a challenge with animated GIFs, and a list of sites with free images as a resource for those building images.

Hydrogen Future or Fool’s Gold & Scams: “Where does the hydrogen come from?”

Commenced: October 24, 2021 Updated: October 24th, 2021

*2023 May 17 th: Updated synopsis and revised.

The race to stop CO2, has led to many 'scam' projects involving hydrogen, but it is not always clear who is being scammed: the public, or the proponents of hydrogen projects. What is the attraction behind the obsession with hydrogen? This is a look at the motives, the myths and the facts around hydrogen projects. Spoiler: There are some valid roles for hydrogen, but hydrogen has no remaining role as an energy source, and even any potential role as an energy carrier is highly questionable.

The Limitations of Perception

Commenced: December 15, 2020

What humans can perceive is not reality in full, but our own picture of reality, constructed by our brains from clues to reality collected by our senses. Science allows us to understand far more, and provides instruments to extend our perception, allowing continual improvement of our picture of reality, but know we do not yet […]

Relativity Simple: Understanding Einstein’s Theory.

Commenced: June 13, 2021

I hope this explanation of relativity and gravity is useful, with Einsteins joy at the realisation of what happens when falling as key to why gravity is not a force. The videos I have linked to should also help explain, although for me, while some by other people may better than my own efforts, none […]

Dark Stuff: Dark Matter, Dark Energy and Antigravity.

Commenced: May 16, 2021

This is an overview of ‘dark matter’ and ‘dark energy’, that was started back in 2016 but published until I was recently asked again. The TLDR; is that no-one knows what dark matter or dark energy are, and it is not even absolutely certain that either exists. In fact, my addition to the official version, […]

WTF? UFOs are Real? (OK, UAPs or Unidentified Aerial Phenomena)

Commenced: June 1, 2021 Updated: June 1st, 2021

*2023 July 28 : New hearings.

The US military is, for the first time, sharing that they really do have UFO/UAP sightings that they cannot explain. It is easy to underestimate the significance of this revelation. There is even at least the appearance of deliberate efforts to downplay the significance. But this revelation, at some level changes our understanding of the universe. Every possible explanation sounds crazy. All of them. Yet at least one explanation must be real.

Relativity for dummies. Part 1 – How fast can you travel?

Commenced: May 4, 2015

How fast? How long does it take the light to get from the Sun to the Earth? A: No time all. You will hear the answer ‘8 and a half minutes’ but that is from our perspective on Earth. From the perspective of the light, it takes no time at all! So it takes the […]

EV Charging Systems: Reference

Commenced: May 20, 2021 Updated: May 10th, 2021

*2022 September 7: Added Ac charging current control for CCS

I have been exploring electric vehicles. What is needed to make them affordable, and what it is like to live with them. When exploring charging, the charging systems became so complex that I have extracted what I found as its own exploration, which I plan to keep updated as a reference. It currently does need an update for wireless charging, but some information can be found on my exploration of the logistics of charging.

Electric Cars: 2021, EVs Just Don’t add up (yet).

Commenced: April 19, 2021 Updated: April 19th, 2021

*2023 December 10 : Reformatted without content change.

Right now, without subsidies, buying an electric car does not objectively add up. Currently there is a price premium, and as a result EVs only appeal to those happy to pay a premium to indulge a passion. Some buyers are prepared to pay a premium for the environment, "the future" or the acceleration, but right now, buying is driven by passion and/or subsidies.

Our Sun: Big, White and a Yellow Dwarf?

Commenced: April 4, 2021 Updated: April 1st, 2021

2021 April 6: Reformat

Our Sun is our very definition of white in colour, as can be seen in photos from space, and larger than most stars. Despite this, our Sun is a yellow dwarf! The page explores a few facts and myths about our star, the Sun.

Camera System Sizes: Phones vs Nikon 1 vs 4/3 vs APSc vs 35mm vs Medium

Commenced: April 3, 2018

Introduction History The system sizes- who and what size camera phones Nikon M1 Micro 4/3 APS-C Canon EF-S – EF-M Fuji X, Nikon, Pentax,Sony 35mm Medium Format X1D H1D 645 Large Format Conclusions No system size is inherently ‘best’ No One system is likely to ‘rule them all‘ any time soon Introduction Different cameras all […]

Photons: What is electromagnetic radiation?

Commenced: September 1, 2020 Updated: September 1st, 2020

*2023-06-16 Fixed incomplete paragraph.

Radio waves, microwaves, millimetre waves, infra-red, visible light, ultraviolet, x-rays, gamma rays… …… can seem so different, yet they are all electromagnetic radiation. All are composed of the same fundamental particle: the ‘photon’. All photons, travel at the ‘speed of light’ (or the ‘speed of photons?’), have the properties of a wave, and interact with […]

the mobile pressure is on apple and samsung, and the importance of Tizen

Commenced: November 18, 2014

The mobile space is dominated by two brands: Apple and Samsung. Each has reached such a large market that continuing to increase market share basically requires the other company to falter. Both have ‘hit the wall’ in terms of market share in the mobile space, with further grown thin market share a real challenge. For […]

Opinion and Review: The Samsung Note Edge.

Commenced: March 30, 2015

I moved from a Samsung Note 3, to a Samsung Note Edge (note 4 variant). The move was not because I chose to make the move, but because I received the note edge as a gift. A key advocate of my receiving the note edge as a gift was set to inherit the Note 3 […]

Broken: Educating Girls in Technology

Commenced: June 15, 2016

Statistics show secondary schools in developed countries are failing to interest girls in technology. I recently attended a forum on this topic and I was able to hear from those making breakthroughs towards fixing the problem. The reality is secondary schools are having difficulties teaching technology in general, and even include woodwork, metalwork, fabrics, sewing […]

Microsoft Phones: Dead, or a real opportunity?

Commenced: June 19, 2016

There are rumours that Microsoft will introduce a Surface Phone. There are other rumours that Microsoft will exit the phone software platform business completely and admit defeat. Now consider, what if Windows could run any Android applications along side current Windows and in addition to Windows programs, would you then consider a Surface Phone? This […]

iPhone 7: misguided headphone fuss

Commenced: September 14, 2016

I suggested the fuss about the headphone jack on the iPhone 7 is misguided. Misguided because the fuss is focused on resisting change, not focused on ensuring the right change. Wireless only limits quality, is not always convenient for charging which means a cable system is still required. Changing from 3.5mm audio to a digital […]

Surface Pro update: Canary for the problems in journalism?

Commenced: October 9, 2016

Ok, so this post is about what is happening with updates for the Surface Pro and the Surface Book, but is also about the problems in technology reporting, which themselves are symptoms of a wider problem. Firstly, to the Surface Pro/Book. There are lots of rumours of an update, and rumours there being rumours is […]

The Canary: part II

Commenced: October 18, 2016

My previous post was a diversion for the usual, and this post is a continuation of the diversion, but normal topics are set to return! For now, a little more the episode of the early warning of failing journalism. In the previous ‘canary post’ I outlined reasons why the almost universally reported ‘Microsoft will not […]

No new Surface ‘Pro 5’ after all?

Commenced: February 11, 2017

Lots of others ‘crystal ball gaze’ into the future of Microsoft’s ‘Surface’ products. Here is another perspective. A lighter tone than the usual post, here is a look at both what Microsoft are likely to do, and what they should do. 🙂 Ok, it is largely crystal ball gazing, but so it seems is every other […]

Lessons from SciFi: Future Expansion

Commenced: May 31, 2016

The actor Morgan Freeman has declared he is determined to produce a movie based on the novel ‘Rendevous with Rama’ by Arthur C Clarke. Great Sci-Fi writers like Clarke are renown for their insights in to the possible future and this novel is no exception. After again reading this novel I realised the insights into […]

Planets, Aliens and Fermi Paradox: Climate or Photons?

Commenced: August 12, 2019 Updated: August 30th, 2019

2019 Aug 30: Just formatting.

There should be well over 11 billion planets in our galaxy with a potential to host life, yet all our searches have not found anybody out there. What gives?

The Future of Medicine

Commenced: September 13, 2016

Over the past 2 days I been given a view of the possible future of medicine, attending two lectures: ‘2084: Future Medicine’ and ‘Nanotainment‘. I will discus the actual presentations later, but the impact is that doctors as we know them and other current medical practitioners being will become obsolete other than for the treatment […]

Autonomous Cars: What’s needed for self-driving and are Lidar & Maps Fools-Gold

Commenced: December 16, 2017 Updated: December 16th, 2017

*2024 Jun 4 : linking to AI - still in progress.

One image of a driverless cars is a Google car with a very prominent LIDAR device on the roof. This is a look at the technologies and the needs of self drive systems, and where things are at in 2017. There is logic to the suggestion by Elon Must that LIDAR is not needed, but there is also logic to suggesting that the steps forward from where we are to true autonomous may be a lot more challenging than it appears.

The ‘perfect’ everyday bag: messenger bag, shoulder bag or backpack?

Commenced: May 7, 2017

I am on the hunt for the perfect bag to carry things with me, but is this a backpack, a messenger bag, or some hybrid of the two. The strongest candidates right now, are the peak design backpack, or the ‘urban disguise’ series from Thinktank. Peak design make a messenger bag the can work as […]